Monthly Archives: November 2016

The Book of Mormon: A Closer Look with Brant Gardner

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In this episode of the LDS Perspectives Podcast, Laura Harris Hales interviews Brant A. Gardner. He is the author of several books and articles discussing the text of the Book of Mormon and ancient Mesoamerica.

The discussion covers the didactic model for translating the Book of Mormon and a possible setting for it.

Brant describes how he became convinced that Mesoamerica could be a possible setting for Lehi to fit into the history of the American continent. He uses several examples from the text of the Book of Mormon that converge with the history of Mesoamerica at that specific time to support his theory.

Then we have some fun chatting about how our understanding of Mesoamerican artifacts and their meaning has changed over the past fifty years. He also lists some false traditions that have hampered our understanding of the relationship between Lehites and indigenous cultures.

According to Brant, his research is not presented to prove the Book of Mormon is true but rather to prove it interesting. I think you will agree that he does just that.

For links to additional resources, read the show notes at LDS Perspectives Podcast.

Book Review: Joseph Smith’s Seer Stones

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Joseph Smith's Seer StonesIn September 2015, photographs of one of Joseph Smith’s seer stones were published in the Joseph Smith Papers: Revelations and Translations: Volume 3.To go along with this, an article was published in the October 2015 Ensign [1] that gave a brief overview of seers, seer stones, and the translation of the Book of Mormon, and also included one of the photographs. This was significant because prior to that, it had been unseen, locked away in the First Presidency’s vault. As it turns out, there were many that were unaware that a seer stone had been used in the translation of the Book of Mormon, and for some this caused some surprise and confusion.

This book goes much further than the Ensign article to “provide a friendly introduction to seer stones,” as well as to “provid[e] an introduction to the historical sources in an accessible style for Latter-day Saints and others.” [2] In doing so, they include sources both friendly and unfriendly to the church (but unfortunately do not always differentiate between them for readers that may not be familiar with some of them). This is an important book in that it is the first fully devoted to the topic.

The introduction talks about “Mormon Paradigm Shifts.” This is for those that were taken by surprise to find out about seer stones, in spite of a multitude of references in church literature throughout the years. “WIth so many Latter-day Saint scholars acknowledging and studying Joseph Smith’s use of seer stones, it is clear the the Church has not been hiding this information. And yet, as with many historically specific topics, without direct references provided in Church teaching materials and curriculum, the average Latter-day Saint would not necessarily encounter the seer stones in the course of their devotional study. …That is why the latest appearance of the topic in the October 2015 Ensign (and Liahona) was so important: it underscores how, even while keeping a sacred relic private, the Church continues to be open about the miraculous process of the translation of the Book of Mormon.” [3] Continue reading

Translating with Seer Stones with Michael Hubbard MacKay

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Russell Stevenson of LDS Perspectives Podcast interviews Dr. Michael Mackay about the use of seer stones in the Book of Mormon translation process.

Some may not realize that Joseph continued to use seer stones after the Book of Mormon was translated. He used them while translating the Bible, when dictating revelations, and even when giving patriarchal blessings.

After his death, Joseph’s stones were passed down to succeeding presidents of the church and looked upon as sacred relics.

Dr. Mackay discusses how the seer stones were not simply a tool to give Joseph confidence to translate; they represent something much more significant.


Braving Nephi’s Isaiah with Joseph M. Spencer

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Join Laura Harris Hales from LDS Perspectives Podcast as she discusses with Joseph Spencer the daunting pursuit of studying Isaiah in the Book of Mormon.

Second Nephi has a reputation for being a bit dry. Missing is the drama of the Book of Mormon. Where the story line pauses, it is replaced with long passages containing interpolations of the words of Nephi into the Old Testament scripture of Isaiah.

Nephi tells readers this departure into deeper doctrine is the “more sacred” part of the small plates. However, modern readers often have difficulty connecting with its discourses pertaining to the gathering of the house of Israel.

Joseph Spencer has spent much of his academic career studying covenantal history, including within Book of Mormon contexts.

Some have coined Isaiah’s presence in the Book of Mormon as a problem; Joseph Spencer sees it more as an answer to questions that emerge within the narrative.

He maintains that making sense of Isaiah’s place in the Book of Mormon is the essential key to making sense of the Book of Mormon. He identifies three narrative hinges in the Book of Mormon that each begin with a quotation from Isaiah. Maybe, just maybe, you might be encouraged to give Isaiah in the Book of Mormon a second look.

To access the links referenced in this podcast, visit LDS Perspectives.



Courtroom Analogy

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Guest post by Paul Brooks from The Reasonable Mormon

Not guilty vs innocent



Since the organization of the Church in 1830, some form of the question “Is the Church true?” has been prevalent among proponents and detractors alike. While much can be said to directly answer the question, much can also be said about nature of the question itself. This post demonstrates why believing the Church is “not true,” or not believing the Church is “true,” does not necessarily mean believing the Church is “false” or worthy of abandoning faith.

Imagine the following fictional conversation between two critics of the Church we shall call Simon and Peter:

Simon: I’ve just been speaking with a friend who asked me to provide a good argument that the LDS Church is false.

Peter: Oh right, how did you get on?

Simon: I couldn’t do it. Everything I raised was contended with good counter evidence, many that I hadn’t heard before.

Peter: OK, so what now?

Simon: Well there isn’t one reason to think it’s false so I guess it’s true. I’m going to start attending each week.

Now this doesn’t usually happen and it’s obvious that something is wrong. Just because Simon couldn’t demonstrate the LDS Church was false, it doesn’t necessarily mean he should believe that the Church is true. We would rightfully expect Simon to be troubled by his experience but not to start attending Sunday services.

But look what happens when we flip this on its head, now imagine two believing members of the Church in a similar conversation:

 Simon: I’ve just been speaking with a friend who asked me to provide a good argument that the LDS Church is true.

 Peter: Oh right, how did you get on?

 Simon: I couldn’t do it. Everything I raised, was contended with good counter evidence, many that I hadn’t heard before.

 Peter: OK, so what now?

 Simon: Well there isn’t one reason to think it’s true so I guess it’s false. I’m going to stop attending each week.

Again, something is wrong but we do see this in our own experience. Sadly this is an argument from ignorance, which is a logical fallacy and occurs when something is believed to be false simply because it has not been shown to be true (or vice versa).

So let’s explore a little more why this is a problem.

In everyday language we use the words “not true” and “false” interchangeably, but they are actually distinct. Usually the distinction doesn’t get us into trouble, but in this situation it may prove highly problematic. Imagine risking eternal salvation based on an error in logic!

The key point to remember is that something that is “not true,” is not necessarily “false.” This would constitute a false dichotomy, meaning that only two options are presented but in reality there are more than two options available. The condition “not true” is a negation of “true,” but also encompasses other conditions in addition to “false.”  

To put it another way:

  • Something “true” is clearly “not false”, but something that is “not true” is not necessarily “false” – for example it may be unknown or nonsensical
  • Something “false” is clearly “not true”, but something that is “not false” is not necessarily “true” – for example again, it may be unknown or nonsensical

This principle is demonstrated in a courtroom, where a case is presented to the judge and the jury for them to evaluate whether the person accused is “guilty” or “not guilty.” This is done by setting a threshold for guilt, such as “beyond reasonable doubt.” In the context of a courtroom, it is important to note:

  • The judge and jury are not deciding between “guilty” and “innocent.” They are looking to see if there is enough evidence to consider them “guilty,” or else consider them “not guilty.”
  • If the person is found to be “not guilty” they are not found to be “innocent,” they were already presumed innocent as a matter of principle before the hearing. It would require another case to evaluate the evidence as to whether the person is actually “innocent” or “not innocent.”
  • A person could theoretically be found “not guilty” and then found “not innocent!”  

Usually faithful members of the Church when called upon to give reasons or an argument that the Church is true, in addition to a spiritual witness, might include things such as:

  • The visions of Joseph Smith
  • The hundreds of statements by the Book of Mormon witnesses
  • The complexity and beauty of the Book of Mormon

However after reading material that challenges these reasons, members may feel they are left without any compelling reason or argument and potentially doubt their own experience of the Spirit. Even if they previously had many reasons for belief, if each one fails then a problem arises. As atheist-turned-deist Anthony Flew once said:

“If one leaky bucket will not hold water there is no reason to think that ten can” (1)

So what should be remembered if you no longer feel you have a compelling or sufficient reason to believe that the Church is true?

The first thing to remember is that your threshold for truth is naturally subjective. Regarding levels of confidence, John Welch has observed:

How much evidence do we need in order to draw a certain conclusion? Answering this question is another choice that combines and bridges faith and evidence.

…a survey conducted in the Eastern District of New York among ten federal judges determined that the phrase “beyond a reasonable doubt” ranged from 76 percent to 95 percent certainty (although most were on the high end of this range). “Clear and convincing evidence” covered from 60 percent to 75 percent. Obviously, a degree of subjectivity is again involved in deciding what level of certitude should be required or has been achieved in a given case.

…In a religious setting, no arbiter prescribes or defines the level of evidence that will sustain a healthy faith. All individuals must set for themselves the levels of proof that they will require… Few people realize how much rides on their personal choice in these matters and that their answer necessarily originates in the domain of faith. (2)

The second thing to remember is that two people can fully agree on the evidence but come to different conclusions based on their assumptions and expectations of what a true Church would look like. From a Church historian’s perspective, Davis Bitton has said:

What’s potentially damaging or challenging to faith depends entirely, I think, on one’s expectations, and not necessarily history. Any kind of experience can be shattering to faith if the expectation is such that one is not prepared for the experience.

…One moves into the land of history, so to speak, and finds shattering incongruities which can be devastating to faith. But the problem is with the expectation, not with the history (3).

The third and most important thing to remember is that irrespective of your level of confidence and your expectations, no longer believing the Church is true is not the same as believing the Church is false (remember the courtroom analogy of “not guilty” and “innocent”). Flip the question around and see if you believe that the Church is false. To say that the Church is false, is a positive statement that carries a rather heavy burden of proof.

If you believe the Church is false, then this would most likely include the Book of Mormon too. You would need to believe there is a good explanation for:

With the above in mind, it would be difficult to honestly conclude the Book of Mormon is false. Dan Peterson at the FairMormon conference in 2016 said that:

…the alternative explanations just don’t work and they get more and more complex and it’s just too much for me, and so I’ve said sometimes that I simply don’t have the faith to disbelieve Joseph Smith’s story. I just can’t get there. I can’t do it. And I’ve tried. I’ve really tried… (4).

Again, from Church historian Davis Bitton:

Let’s get one thing clear. There is nothing in church history that leads inevitably to the conclusion that the church is false. There is nothing that requires the conclusion that Joseph Smith was a fraud. How can I say this with such confidence? For the simple reason that the Latter-day Saint historians who know the most about our church history have been and are faithful, committed members of the church. More precisely, there are faithful Latter-day Saint historians who know as much about this subject as any anti-Mormon or anyone who writes on the subject from an outside perspective. In fact, with few exceptions, they know much, much more. They have not been blown away. They have not gnashed their teeth and abandoned their faith. To repeat, they have found nothing that forces the extreme conclusion our enemies like to promote (5).

This consideration could very likely put the person in a limbo period, and in terms of the courtroom analogy, somewhere between “not guilty” and “not innocent.”

As shown above, no longer believing the Church is true, is not concluding the Church is false or necessarily worthy of abandoning faith. In the same way a critic would still need a positive reason to believe the Church is true, a member should still need a positive reason to believe the Church is false.

In many cases, potential reasons for believing the Church is false are based on our own expectations of God or the Church, such as “A true Church would not allow (or be permitted to allow) XYZ to happen, but XYZ did happen.” When we examine our assumptions and expectations, we may see that some are quite questionable. Even our opinion of sufficient conditions for the Church being false may be questionable.

In summary, if there are things you have come across which challenge your testimony, it is likely that there are still things to come across which would strengthen your testimony, such as over 200 KnoWhys from Book of Mormon Central or 80 evidences supporting the Prophet Joseph Smith from Michael R. Ash.

Ultimately faith is a choice and we can choose to be faithful, or choose not to be faithful, to the light that we have been given, remembering the promise that:

…he that receiveth light, and continueth in God, receiveth more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day. (D&C 50:24)

Further reading

I Don’t Have a Testimony of the History of the Church

Recommended reading – Positive evidence for Mormonism


1. Antony G. N. Flew, God and Philosophy (London, 1966), 63.

2. John Welch. 2016. The Power of Evidence in the Nurturing of Faith. [ONLINE] Available at: [Accessed 21 October 2016].

3. Davis Bitton. 2004. I Don’t Have a Testimony of the History of the Church. [ONLINE] Available at: [Accessed 24 October 2016].

4. Daniel Peterson. 2016. The Logic Tree of Life, or, Why I Can’t Manage to Disbelieve. [ONLINE] Available at: [Accessed 19 October 2016].

5. Davis Bitton. 2004. I Don’t Have a Testimony of the History of the Church. [ONLINE] Available at: [Accessed 24 October 2016].